okay, so i'm curious. The game was basically black balled 2 weeks out of the game blowing up.. taken off the shelves due to ongoing legal issues that we are all aware of.. with that has anyone tried to get refund? i stopped myself from trying since i have more than 2 hours in game and not to mention i wanted to see if there was positive outcome and that is looking grim.

Originally posted by 123:

okay, so i'm curious. The game was basically black balled 2 weeks out of the game blowing up.. taken off the shelves due to ongoing legal issues that we are all aware of.. with that has anyone tried to get refund? i stopped myself from trying since i have more than 2 hours in game and not to mention i wanted to see if there was positive outcome and that is looking grim.

You should refund it within 2 hours in first 2 weeks. Do you think you could do that other games if you are out of their rule? Just ask yourself. I don't think you should ask a question like that.

Originally posted by Dies Fourth:

Originally posted by -=GUARDIAN=-:

legallly the only way u can get a refund will be if Myth of Empires is found guilty of stealling the game code from Ark/Atlas, through the courts. At that time, the game (company) would be found guilty by a court rulling, what which time one resolution would be to have the game removed from steam, and steam would have to insure no one has stolen content on its platform, (whereby they would have to credit those that have the game, when they remove it).

This is a long shot and far off since legal court resolutions can take 1-3 years. Good luck waiting for that refund.

Why would the court { and do they have the power } force Steam to refund ?
Not sell further copied i can see but forced to offer refunds ? Im sure steams legal team would fight that.
Steam isnt even being sued so why would any judgement be placed on them ?
As far as i know steam complied with the " wishes " of the court and voluntarily removed the game.

Simply Put, steam is a corporation (legal entity/person) which operates in the US, and is required to follow and operate within the Law.

Theirs a Law which states

A) A person shall not be in possession of stolen property (knowingly). This is a crime

This means they need to remove the game and refund anyone that bought the game.

Originally posted by -=GUARDIAN=-:

Originally posted by Dies Fourth:

Why would the court { and do they have the power } force Steam to refund ?
Not sell further copied i can see but forced to offer refunds ? Im sure steams legal team would fight that.
Steam isnt even being sued so why would any judgement be placed on them ?
As far as i know steam complied with the " wishes " of the court and voluntarily removed the game.

Simply Put, steam is a corporation (legal entity/person) which operates in the US, and is required to follow and operate within the Law.

Theirs a Law which states

A) A person shall not be in possession of stolen property (knowingly). This is a crime

This means they need to remove the game and refund anyone that bought the game.

theres aloot of laws on the books. Wether the court react to the exact letter of the law is a different story. I highly doubt the game will forcibly be removed from anyones steam account.

Can you site any cases where this has been enforced as far as video games are concerned ?

I, accoring to the " law " owed 100k to the state of Tx. I settled for 19k and the law even sudjested it to me so i agreed.

Originally posted by -=GUARDIAN=-:

Originally posted by Dies Fourth:

Why would the court { and do they have the power } force Steam to refund ?
Not sell further copied i can see but forced to offer refunds ? Im sure steams legal team would fight that.
Steam isnt even being sued so why would any judgement be placed on them ?
As far as i know steam complied with the " wishes " of the court and voluntarily removed the game.

Simply Put, steam is a corporation (legal entity/person) which operates in the US, and is required to follow and operate within the Law.

Theirs a Law which states

A) A person shall not be in possession of stolen property (knowingly). This is a crime

This means they need to remove the game and refund anyone that bought the game.

Maybe so. This is why Steam may have to remove it eventually in NA. The devs however are Chinese and based in China and apart from losing a fairly popular sales platform for the Western market aren't going to shut down their company or their game based on what a Californian court decides. Nor are they likely to hand over company property stolen or otherwise to a NA court.
There is so much for sale on Steam that has turned into vaporware and been abandoned after various lengths of time. Nobody gets refunds for those do they? Servers for MMO's shut down. No refunds. Micro-transactions still for sale on Steam even though the game is defunct and servers for it are shut. No action taken on those. Do you really think you are entitled to a refund from Steam for a game that is still for sale, still in development, still has live servers and is based outside NA where Steam cannot chase them to recoup their losses.
Steam only offers refunds because they were taken to court when they didn't do it. They aren't a family friendly, dogooder bunch of nice folks. They wont give you anything unless they are taken to court once again.

If you want to get technical then telephones are based on stolen tech.
Destroy your phone.
Sue the tele-communications company.
Sue the phone manufacturers.
Shut down the internet.
Shut down global communications.
Either apply your argument to ALL aspects of your life or stop raving on about something you are obviously not in a position to legitimately complain about.

You are committing a crime by being in possession of and using a phone according to your argument. So now that you are knowingly in possession of stolen property... whatcha gonna do?
Let me guess... you are going to ignore it because it doesn't suit you.

Oh and give over anything you own made in China because that's most likely copied in some form from western based items and tech. Don't use anything even made in China if you are that bothered by it.

You don't actually own the game so why are you sticking your nose into something that doesn't concern you? Just making trouble eh? You seem to know all about the law but cannot manage to use "there's and theirs" correctly. Nice. All this banging on about possession and you don't seem to know how to use the possessive form of the personal pronoun. Ironic eh?

Simply put 'Steam don't care'.

Chill out. Let the courts deal with it and don't stir trouble until there IS actually something definite to talk about. Right now nobody knows much at all.

The Trolls just need keep stirring the pot, wow. MoE has not stolen a thing, its now that MoE is suing back, for the false lies used to get game removed from steam, Get on ball you 12 year olds, wow.

Originally posted by Berserker:

Originally posted by 123:

okay, so i'm curious. The game was basically black balled 2 weeks out of the game blowing up.. taken off the shelves due to ongoing legal issues that we are all aware of.. with that has anyone tried to get refund? i stopped myself from trying since i have more than 2 hours in game and not to mention i wanted to see if there was positive outcome and that is looking grim.

You should refund it within 2 hours in first 2 weeks. Do you think you could do that other games if you are out of their rule? Just ask yourself. I don't think you should ask a question like that.

are you stupid or smth just look at cyber punk. ill never be able to play this game with my friends since they cant buy it. also steam isnt refunding, the publisher will pay the refunds.

Originally posted by Either it works or it doesn't:

Originally posted by Berserker:

You should refund it within 2 hours in first 2 weeks. Do you think you could do that other games if you are out of their rule? Just ask yourself. I don't think you should ask a question like that.

are you stupid or smth just look at cyber punk. ill never be able to play this game with my friends since they cant buy it. also steam isnt refunding, the publisher will pay the refunds.

Why would the publisher pay refunds ? The game still works and is readily avaliable.

Originally posted by stretch:

Originally posted by -=GUARDIAN=-:

Simply Put, steam is a corporation (legal entity/person) which operates in the US, and is required to follow and operate within the Law.

Theirs a Law which states

A) A person shall not be in possession of stolen property (knowingly). This is a crime

This means they need to remove the game and refund anyone that bought the game.

Maybe so. This is why Steam may have to remove it eventually in NA. The devs however are Chinese and based in China and apart from losing a fairly popular sales platform for the Western market aren't going to shut down their company or their game based on what a Californian court decides. Nor are they likely to hand over company property stolen or otherwise to a NA court.
There is so much for sale on Steam that has turned into vaporware and been abandoned after various lengths of time. Nobody gets refunds for those do they? Servers for MMO's shut down. No refunds. Micro-transactions still for sale on Steam even though the game is defunct and servers for it are shut. No action taken on those. Do you really think you are entitled to a refund from Steam for a game that is still for sale, still in development, still has live servers and is based outside NA where Steam cannot chase them to recoup their losses.
Steam only offers refunds because they were taken to court when they didn't do it. They aren't a family friendly, dogooder bunch of nice folks. They wont give you anything unless they are taken to court once again.

If you want to get technical then telephones are based on stolen tech.
Destroy your phone.
Sue the tele-communications company.
Sue the phone manufacturers.
Shut down the internet.
Shut down global communications.
Either apply your argument to ALL aspects of your life or stop raving on about something you are obviously not in a position to legitimately complain about.

You are committing a crime by being in possession of and using a phone according to your argument. So now that you are knowingly in possession of stolen property... whatcha gonna do?
Let me guess... you are going to ignore it because it doesn't suit you.

Oh and give over anything you own made in China because that's most likely copied in some form from western based items and tech. Don't use anything even made in China if you are that bothered by it.

You don't actually own the game so why are you sticking your nose into something that doesn't concern you? Just making trouble eh? You seem to know all about the law but cannot manage to use "there's and theirs" correctly. Nice. All this banging on about possession and you don't seem to know how to use the possessive form of the personal pronoun. Ironic eh?

Simply put 'Steam don't care'.

Chill out. Let the courts deal with it and don't stir trouble until there IS actually something definite to talk about. Right now nobody knows much at all.

I keep seeing this point being made about phones being stolen? Then it turns into a moral equivalency argument i.e. "everyone steals therefore ok if MoE is stolen".

I'll admit I'm not a phone expert therefore what is the story there? I did try to Google it and all I got were articles about Chinese companies stealing phone IP (not a good example when we are talking about a Chinese company being accused of stealing game code).

Honestly I'm curious about the basis for the stolen phone analogy (always like to learn something new).

I think hes talking about how all mobile phone and global communication tech is so close in features and functions alot of theft went on in the past and the manufactures now just kind of accept its been done and everyone is benefiting equally from it.

Basically all electronics are a knock off of some1 elses design. TV's, microwaves, ear buds, cars, appliances basically everything is just a reverse engineered product of some1 elses original design and in some cases improving iut but in most cases just repackaging it with slight differences and calling it their own.

Alot of car manufactures that do design something totally original let their patents run out after a few years so everyone can make/include the features in other vehicles. That way the industry as a whole advances and the consumer is the overall winner.

Im sure some will disagree and thats fine, im not about to get into a verbal debate over technicalities, this is common practice in the world we live in and everyone knows it.

Why do people keep trying this topic, one you will never get a refund game is still playable still under works, you got over 2 hours. I have games on my libarary that no one officially owns anymore and isn't on steam any more, legally steam sold it to me I got hours in, and I can still self host a game with it or play it on some level. I mean crying out loud there are people with Star Wars Galaxies in their libarary, and that game was shut down ages ago for Old Republic lol

Your not gonna get paid a refund because they never promised it would always be on the store, they just promised if you bought it you will keep it as long as they got game servers. They are not liable for legal issues of devs, devs quiting, dying, running away with the money etc etc.

Its like going to a casino and betting it all on 00 and going "excuse me this bet didn't pay out I want a refund." Its like yeah this sold as EA game and steams EA policy is no refunds, and they don't gaurntee it iwll ever be finished bug free or even same mechanichs from day you buy it, and devs are done with it. You saw the disclaimer and still bought it. And now you act like you gambled and lost. Meanwhile there is lawsuit in effect saying the take down notice was an illegal tactic to hurt the company. There is gonna be a rulling at end of the month wich they can appeal and so can Snail that will decide if they can go back up on steam or not lol

Originally posted by Dies Fourth:

I think hes talking about how all mobile phone and global communication tech is so close in features and functions alot of theft went on in the past and the manufactures now just kind of accept its been done and everyone is benefiting equally from it.

Basically all electronics are a knock off of some1 elses design. TV's, microwaves, ear buds, cars, appliances basically everything is just a reverse engineered product of some1 elses original design and in some cases improving iut but in most cases just repackaging it with slight differences and calling it their own.

Alot of car manufactures that do design something totally original let their patents run out after a few years so everyone can make/include the features in other vehicles. That way the industry as a whole advances and the consumer is the overall winner.

Im sure some will disagree and thats fine, im not about to get into a verbal debate over technicalities, this is common practice in the world we live in and everyone knows it.

Thank you. Interesting.

Certain Chinese manufactures were accused of stealing smart phone and other electronics IP. That being the case one could argue that MoE is being accused of doing what other Chinese companies have done in the past (steal IP then hide/protected behind the great firewall). The fact that they are now bypassing STEAM seems to imply that is the path they are taking.

Oh well a bit off topic per the original post but thanks for clarifying.

Originally posted by vicbos:

Honestly I'm curious about the basis for the stolen phone analogy (always like to learn something new).

This goes right back to the invention of phones. There is a lot of debate over who actually invented it first and if AGB stole/plagiarised ideas off Antonio Meucci or Philipp Reisand and then patented it as his own invention. There is no doubt who got the first patent but a lot of doubt about it being his own original work. Plus IIRC didn't two people lodge very similar patents on exactly the same day? Co-incidence?

So at it's core it is supposedly stolen? liberated? copied? tech right from the get go.

Is it? Isn't it? I wasn't there and I don't know the truth. Do I believe someone would be willing and able to steal the tech and claim it as their own. Absolutely. Did they? Who knows.

You wont get a refund. If you don't like the game, then forget about it and move on. Otherwise, the game will continue to exist despite any decision made by the DMCA.

Originally posted by 123:

okay, so i'm curious. The game was basically black balled 2 weeks out of the game blowing up.. taken off the shelves due to ongoing legal issues that we are all aware of.. with that has anyone tried to get refund? i stopped myself from trying since i have more than 2 hours in game and not to mention i wanted to see if there was positive outcome and that is looking grim.

legallly the only way u can get a refund will be if Myth of Empires is found guilty of stealling the game code from Ark/Atlas, through the courts. At that time, the game (company) would be found guilty by a court rulling, what which time one resolution would be to have the game removed from steam, and steam would have to insure no one has stolen content on its platform, (whereby they would have to credit those that have the game, when they remove it).

This is a long shot and far off since legal court resolutions can take 1-3 years. Good luck waiting for that refund.

Originally posted by -=GUARDIAN=-:

Originally posted by 123:

okay, so i'm curious. The game was basically black balled 2 weeks out of the game blowing up.. taken off the shelves due to ongoing legal issues that we are all aware of.. with that has anyone tried to get refund? i stopped myself from trying since i have more than 2 hours in game and not to mention i wanted to see if there was positive outcome and that is looking grim.

legallly the only way u can get a refund will be if Myth of Empires is found guilty of stealling the game code from Ark/Atlas, through the courts. At that time, the game (company) would be found guilty by a court rulling, what which time one resolution would be to have the game removed from steam, and steam would have to insure no one has stolen content on its platform, (whereby they would have to credit those that have the game, when they remove it).

This is a long shot and far off since legal court resolutions can take 1-3 years. Good luck waiting for that refund.

Why would the court { and do they have the power } force Steam to refund ?
Not sell further copied i can see but forced to offer refunds ? Im sure steams legal team would fight that.
Steam isnt even being sued so why would any judgement be placed on them ?
As far as i know steam complied with the " wishes " of the court and voluntarily removed the game.