I'm going to be asking a question related to the plot of me1 early on below so if your just starting don't read the spoiler text.

Something that really gets me is once Shepard is named as a specter why is he sent after saren specifically? I know that its because plot reasons but logically why would to send a freshly minted specter of a new race on an incredibly dangerous mission to take down a rogue specter who was also the council's top most skilled agent. Wouldn't it make more sense to send their next most skilled specter? I assume this was nihlus since him and saren seemed familiar so hes out but still I know specters are chosen because of their skill but there is clearly still some training involved I would think or are they all recruited at the height of their skill level in combat?

There are lots of ways to parse the story logic. It was also obvious that some on the council were very against having a human specter and humans on the councils. Also, you could suppose there might be extra-species political reasons why using a more experienced specter might create friction between the various groups.

Using an expendable human might have look good to everyone and if they failed/died give reason to why the human contingent had no reason to gripe or expect greater representation. The story does go on at length about how the council is not really taking the threat proposed by Shepard seriously.

My take is:

The council can placate a pestering humankind by giving them their first spectre and they can send that said spectre to deal with Saren thus avoiding conflict within the council races (basically they use humankind as a scapegoat kinda).

You have to remember that Mass effect has racism, racial bias etc. If i remember right many people including the council is wary of humanity and how strong humanity comes on compared to other races. (Consider humans as political krogans and i think you get it).

I'd like to discuss more about the interaction between shepard and the council but i won't as thats very spoilerish :x

You will notice trough all 3 games that the council are completely incompetent and Shephard gets more and more annoyed at them.

Originally posted by Mr. Bufferlow:

Originally posted by Lain:

Ahh thank you I never looked at this at that angle it makes a lot of sense using shepard as a scapegoat and gaining the positive PR from it that is actually something I like about the council they represent realistic politics as an intergalactic ruling body most likely would.

One thing though I would think they'd want saren dead asap, he was their top agent and probably knows a lot of secrets that could endanger the council greatly but I suppose they could always send the next best agent if shepard dies anyway.

Originally posted by NisseDood:

You will notice trough all 3 games that the council are completely incompetent and Shephard gets more and more annoyed at them.

I have played all three, the thing I like about the council is they represent realistic political ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, it makes sense.

one thing i'd also add is, it was humanity and shepard who came to them with the problem. and then pressured the council to deal with it. making shepard a spectre, and then giving shepard the mission to deal with seran, comes off very "show us you can deal with your own problems." to me in terms of being to humanity dealing with a rouge agent attacking them, and shepard being able to handle missions of a more personal nature. i also agree with a lot of the above stuff though.

also at this point, the council don't seem to take the claims about Saren and his ship and the geth seriously so maybe their thinking is that they can send this new, human spectre off on a wild goose chase that will keep them out of trouble

answer: lackluster writing. Though to be fair they do say Shepard is assigned because of the capabilities of the Normandy and the number of specters is left ambiguous so for all we know there are only a handful and they are all preoccupied. Also him being "new" doesn't really mean anything considering they are only chosen from the most well trained candidates in the galaxy to begin with.

That said, generally you just need to turn your brain off playing ME1 because they expect you to envelope yourself in a grand sci-fi universe... then they say shoddy audio counts as irrefutable evidence to convict government agents and super-soldiers don't have body cameras on them despite omni-tools being a thing. Tbh the inconsistencies are part of the charm at this point.

Also my favorite plot hole is this:

If you accept the side mission to bug the citadel air traffic controllers... but don't actually do the mission. Then technically If you were to then go to Virmire and hear Sovereigns monologue then Shepard canonically has an audio recording device as proof but chooses not to use it because plot!

Originally posted by SpaceWombat:

answer: lackluster writing.

You kinda just need to turn your brain off playing ME1 because they expect you to envelope yourself in a grand sci-fi universe... yet shoddy audio counts as irrefutable evidence to convict government agents and super-soldiers don't have body cameras on them. Tbh its part of the charm.

Also my favorite plot hole is this:

If you accept the side mission to bug the citadel air traffic controllers... but don't actually do the mission. Then technically If you were to then go to Virmire and hear Sovereigns monologue then Shepard canonically has an audio recording device as proof but chooses not to use it because plot!

Yeah this is true, the shear amount of non belief/lack of future tech recording events is staggering once I look back on it, I love mass effect but you can see how it suffered due to the fact that bioware was used to writing for fantasy games not sci fi.

I will say though it does go into the fact later in the citadel dlc that the council DOES know the reapers are real and are basically just ignoring it (when your going through the data vaults) and sadly it does make a lot of sense, if there was a meteor or other world destroying event heading for us RIGHT now what do you think the governments of the world would do? Keep it as quiet as possible to keep people calm and probably sit on their asses a sad but realistic outcome.

Originally posted by SpaceWombat:

answer: lackluster writing. Though to be fair they do say Shepard is assigned because of the capabilities of the Normandy and the number of specters is left ambiguous so for all we know there are only a handful and they are all preoccupied. Also him being "new" doesn't really mean anything considering they are only chosen from the most well trained candidates in the galaxy to begin with.

That said, generally you just need to turn your brain off playing ME1 because they expect you to envelope yourself in a grand sci-fi universe... then they say shoddy audio counts as irrefutable evidence to convict government agents and super-soldiers don't have body cameras on them despite omni-tools being a thing. Tbh the inconsistencies are part of the charm at this point.

Also my favorite plot hole is this:

If you accept the side mission to bug the citadel air traffic controllers... but don't actually do the mission. Then technically If you were to then go to Virmire and hear Sovereigns monologue then Shepard canonically has an audio recording device as proof but chooses not to use it because plot!

Hey...don't forget the part after the first mission, where the Council categorically dismisses eyewitness testimony by the dockworker, despite the fact that the guy couldn't have known in advance what he was about to see and thus couldn't be making it up. <eyeball roll>

Originally posted by barzai:

Originally posted by SpaceWombat:

answer: lackluster writing. Though to be fair they do say Shepard is assigned because of the capabilities of the Normandy and the number of specters is left ambiguous so for all we know there are only a handful and they are all preoccupied. Also him being "new" doesn't really mean anything considering they are only chosen from the most well trained candidates in the galaxy to begin with.

That said, generally you just need to turn your brain off playing ME1 because they expect you to envelope yourself in a grand sci-fi universe... then they say shoddy audio counts as irrefutable evidence to convict government agents and super-soldiers don't have body cameras on them despite omni-tools being a thing. Tbh the inconsistencies are part of the charm at this point.

Also my favorite plot hole is this:

If you accept the side mission to bug the citadel air traffic controllers... but don't actually do the mission. Then technically If you were to then go to Virmire and hear Sovereigns monologue then Shepard canonically has an audio recording device as proof but chooses not to use it because plot!

Hey...don't forget the part after the first mission, where the Council categorically dismisses eyewitness testimony by the dockworker, despite the fact that the guy couldn't have known in advance what he was about to see and thus couldn't be making it up. <eyeball roll>

True and how would he be able to pick out saren specifically? While he is their top agent he is essentially part of a secret police.

Originally posted by Googley Eye'd Bastard:

Originally posted by SpaceWombat:

answer: lackluster writing.

You kinda just need to turn your brain off playing ME1 because they expect you to envelope yourself in a grand sci-fi universe... yet shoddy audio counts as irrefutable evidence to convict government agents and super-soldiers don't have body cameras on them. Tbh its part of the charm.

Also my favorite plot hole is this:

If you accept the side mission to bug the citadel air traffic controllers... but don't actually do the mission. Then technically If you were to then go to Virmire and hear Sovereigns monologue then Shepard canonically has an audio recording device as proof but chooses not to use it because plot!

Yeah this is true, the shear amount of non belief/lack of future tech recording events is staggering once I look back on it, I love mass effect but you can see how it suffered due to the fact that bioware was used to writing for fantasy games not sci fi.

I will say though it does go into the fact later in the citadel dlc that the council DOES know the reapers are real and are basically just ignoring it (when your going through the data vaults) and sadly it does make a lot of sense, if there was a meteor or other world destroying event heading for us RIGHT now what do you think the governments of the world would do? Keep it as quiet as possible to keep people calm and probably sit on their asses a sad but realistic outcome.

i think part of it also could be, how much does it matter they believe it? i think i vaguely remember a line in me2 or maybe it was 3. where a council member implies they believe shepard. but like their species government behind them don't and the average person doesn't. So the councilor may personally believe Shepard but can't act on it.

like tbf a lot of the "Evidence" shepard gathers is stuff that'd likely be classified fairly highly. so the average person doesn't get to see the stuff that actually shows the reapers are real. listen to the news reports about shepard and they always kinda sound like conspiracy theories over the games until 3.

so i think its fairly likely that like the goverments of the species themselves are at a mix of we can't let it get out its real to stop panic, and people not believing its real based on what level they are, and some persons just not believing it, so the councilors can't really do much even if they per say personally wanted to.


i remember a lot of udina's lines in early me3. the councilor under normal times is just, a spokesperson for that species. Its the governments behind them that actually have the power and make the bigger choices. the reason why Udina has so much power in 3 early on is because there is no earth goverment anymore so it falls to him. he even says as much.

the salarian councilor has a very similar thing going on. they wanted to support shepard as well but the diatrass (the goverment ruler of them) didn't so she couldn't do much. but if you listen around and read some of the war assets. the salarians start to rebel against the diatrass and actually rally under the councilor instead giving the councilor the power to just ignore her as shes basically deposed, in which they call in shepard to the citadel to talk.

Originally posted by StellarSkys:

Originally posted by Googley Eye'd Bastard:

Yeah this is true, the shear amount of non belief/lack of future tech recording events is staggering once I look back on it, I love mass effect but you can see how it suffered due to the fact that bioware was used to writing for fantasy games not sci fi.

I will say though it does go into the fact later in the citadel dlc that the council DOES know the reapers are real and are basically just ignoring it (when your going through the data vaults) and sadly it does make a lot of sense, if there was a meteor or other world destroying event heading for us RIGHT now what do you think the governments of the world would do? Keep it as quiet as possible to keep people calm and probably sit on their asses a sad but realistic outcome.

i think part of it also could be, how much does it matter they believe it? i think i vaguely remember a line in me2 or maybe it was 3. where a council member implies they believe shepard. but like their species government behind them don't and the average person doesn't. So the councilor may personally believe Shepard but can't act on it.

like tbf a lot of the "Evidence" shepard gathers is stuff that'd likely be classified fairly highly. so the average person doesn't get to see the stuff that actually shows the reapers are real. listen to the news reports about shepard and they always kinda sound like conspiracy theories over the games until 3.

so i think its fairly likely that like the goverments of the species themselves are at a mix of we can't let it get out its real to stop panic, and people not believing its real based on what level they are, and some persons just not believing it, so the councilors can't really do much even if they per say personally wanted to.


i remember a lot of udina's lines in early me3. the councilor under normal times is just, a spokesperson for that species. Its the governments behind them that actually have the power and make the bigger choices. the reason why Udina has so much power in 3 early on is because there is no earth goverment anymore so it falls to him. he even says as much.

the salarian councilor has a very similar thing going on. they wanted to support shepard as well but the diatrass (the goverment ruler of them) didn't so she couldn't do much. but if you listen around and read some of the war assets. the salarians start to rebel against the diatrass and actually rally under the councilor instead giving the councilor the power to just ignore her as shes basically deposed, in which they call in shepard to the citadel to talk.

Yes that makes a lot more sense now that I remember that, and wow I didn't realize what was going on with the salarian leadership hope we find out there was some sort of event around this in me4.

Mass effect could as well have the subtitle Political nightmare simulator, because Shephard cant do ♥♥♥♥ without politics constantly being a pain in the ass.

Originally posted by Googley Eye'd Bastard:

Originally posted by StellarSkys:

i think part of it also could be, how much does it matter they believe it? i think i vaguely remember a line in me2 or maybe it was 3. where a council member implies they believe shepard. but like their species government behind them don't and the average person doesn't. So the councilor may personally believe Shepard but can't act on it.

like tbf a lot of the "Evidence" shepard gathers is stuff that'd likely be classified fairly highly. so the average person doesn't get to see the stuff that actually shows the reapers are real. listen to the news reports about shepard and they always kinda sound like conspiracy theories over the games until 3.

so i think its fairly likely that like the goverments of the species themselves are at a mix of we can't let it get out its real to stop panic, and people not believing its real based on what level they are, and some persons just not believing it, so the councilors can't really do much even if they per say personally wanted to.


i remember a lot of udina's lines in early me3. the councilor under normal times is just, a spokesperson for that species. Its the governments behind them that actually have the power and make the bigger choices. the reason why Udina has so much power in 3 early on is because there is no earth goverment anymore so it falls to him. he even says as much.

the salarian councilor has a very similar thing going on. they wanted to support shepard as well but the diatrass (the goverment ruler of them) didn't so she couldn't do much. but if you listen around and read some of the war assets. the salarians start to rebel against the diatrass and actually rally under the councilor instead giving the councilor the power to just ignore her as shes basically deposed, in which they call in shepard to the citadel to talk.

Yes that makes a lot more sense now that I remember that, and wow I didn't realize what was going on with the salarian leadership hope we find out there was some sort of event around this in me4.

yeah its worth noting that its been a while since i like examined that situation in detail so take a grain of salt for the details.

but

its the diatrass you talk to in the normandy with the new turian primarch and wrex/wreav. not the councilor. i didn't actually realize that myself for a long time. also remember the turian councilor says he can't help you. go to meane and rescue the primarch he can help you. again showing the councilors can't really do much without their species backing them up. Note how the asari have a similar thing with sending you to thessia. the councilor makes use of the asari republic being in disarray and then leaks to you about asari secrets about the cache they have.

but yeah on the normandy the diatrass doesnt want the genophage cured, and denies you salarain help if you go to cure it. if you ignore her attempts to convince you otherwise she denies you their help. after that you get dialogue from that salarian spectre, and the some lines in the salarian war assets about how they don't support the diatrass not supporting you and go against her subtly at first but the movment grows. the Salarian councilor calls shepard in to the citiadel with evidence udina might be a traitor for cerberus (a little late on that one buddy). but after shepard saves the councilor its what pushes the salarians to start helping shepard more openly against the diatress and properly committing forces.

Let's be real though, one of the biggest travesties of the writing of the original trilogy is how they handled Udina. In ME1 he is actually the only logical person and acts the way he does as his position demands for the most part. In turn if Shepard makes logical decisions he actually develops respect towards the player.

It's this reason why I always hated how 2 & 3 just made him into a stereotypical "bad guy politician" for no reason in the sequels. Imo he had some of the most depth of any character in the entire series in ME1.